Father Peter McVerry has been an indefatigable advocate for social justice and an uncompromising voice for the marginalised in our society for decades. Alongside homelessness issues, he is a campaigner for the humane treatment of prisoners and those with addiction and mental health difficulties. He spoke to Fran Cassidy about eliminating homelessness, and what he believes in.

In my own interviews conducted through research for the Homeless Agency with people who have experienced homelessness, drug addiction, and in many cases abuse, the level of respect, gratitude and affection expressed for Fr Peter McVerry by those he has worked with has been quite remarkable. These testimonials are often from people who are scathingly skeptical about a society that they see as having abandoned them, and some cite ‘Hedge’ (as he is known to many) as the one positive influence in their lives.

I’m a supporter of the Homeless Agency he tells me. They have achieved a huge amount, particularly in regard to co-ordination of what were very isolated and scattered services, and in terms of improving the quality of services. But the success of eliminating homelessness depends on factors outside their control – notably whether the HSE is going to establish adequate services. If those services remain as poor as they are then it’s going to be almost impossible to eliminate homelessness.

You can’t just meet homeless needs independently, you have to deal with the person holistically. We’re dealing with people with multiple needs. Their homelessness may have been caused by, and would certainly have been aggravated by mental health needs or addiction, and many homeless people have traumas from their childhoods that were never adequately dealt with, and they may need intensive counselling and therapy.

If primary care teams, and addiction, mental health, and counselling services are not first class, and readily available and accessible, then it is going to be extremely difficult to maintain some people in their own accommodation. For a significant minority of people, unless you provide all those services and deal with all those problems, the odds are stacked against you.

Do you think this is likely?

Unfortunately, I don’t see any possibility of addiction or mental health services improving in the near future.

The evidence over the last five years is that there has been no priority given to mental health. Funding has been diverted into other areas. Nine times out of ten we fail to even access a service for people with mental health problems. Nobody will take responsibility. And where people do access a service, it’s generally very poor and based on medication which is probably the last thing somebody with an addiction needs.

In addition, we need adequate addiction services. How do you support somebody in their own accommodation while they are waiting years to get on to a methadone programme for example? Even financially it is almost impossible.

What about targeting services at the homeless population?

Once you target services to a particular subgroup of the population, that creates its own problems. If you simply target those services at homeless people, and they are inadequate for the rest of the population, then people just end up becoming or pretending to be homeless in order to access services. This happens with housing. There is such a long waiting list, some people will register themselves as homeless. You need adequate services for the population, some of whom happen to be homeless.

Where would the money come from?

It would need a higher tax base. In fairer societies that is the case. The massive payback is that they are better communities for everyone to live in. We’re all human beings, there is a solidarity between us all. It is appalling that some people get so little of what this world has to offer, some people suffer so much in this world because the rest of us are so greedy and selfish. Some people grab an inordinate share. We have in the western world. And within our country some people have grabbed an inordinate share.

So you wouldn’t be confident of homelessness being eliminated in the near future?

I personally don’t think there’s a chance. Basically homeless people are at the bottom of the social housing waiting list, and three quarters of homeless people are single or separated so they are a very low priority in terms of social housing.

The solution to homelessness is to give people their own homes, but we are very short of opportunities for people to move into their own homes so I don’t see that as possible. I think the government are planning to lease 2000 units from the NAMA sort of projects. But there are 56,000 households on the waiting list. I don’t think you can separate the two issues. You could of course give all the social housing to homeless people but then you’re just pushing people on the waiting list down.

What we can, and what we will do, is provide a significant number of homeless people with their own home. But they will tend to be the easier to deal with homeless people. Who is going to accommodate those with problems? The housing associations will do their best to provide support services, because they have the expertise in that, but they don’t have the resources to give the high support level that such people in their own housing need. So unless they get substantially increased resources I don’t see that voluntary bodies can make a significant impact into that very difficult homeless group.

Housing and the primary responsibility for accommodating homeless people rests with the local authorities. But local authorities aren’t going to entertain people with problems – they are more likely to evict them than to house them! Although Dublin City Council, to give them their due, have been by far the best of all the local authorities in focussing on the needs of homeless people. Some other local authorities won’t give any credence to being homeless.

Some things are getting worse at the moment. The primary way out of homelessness traditionally has been private rented accommodation with the rent supplement. Two things have happened because of cutbacks and the recession. Rent supplement is becoming harder to access, and has been cut back.

To get into private rented accommodation with rent supplement you now have to remain homeless for six months. That seems utter madness, while one state agency is trying to eliminate homelessness another state agency is increasing homelessness.

And the rent cap has gone down. You now have to pay an extra ten percent for a single person roughly. Ten percent of a single person’s dole money can make all the difference to their quality of life. The argument that because rents have gone down, the homeless person should negotiate a lower rent, fails to see the issue. If I’m working I can go to a landlord and say unless you drop the rent I’m going to move out. But if you are homeless you can’t do that. You don’t have the deposit to look for another flat. The power relationship between the landlord and the tenant hasn’t changed, at that rent subsidy level. So many landlords are simply refusing to lower their rent and the tenant is left paying an unofficial top up.

What do you think of the Housing First approach?

I’ve always supported the policy of putting people into their own homes and bringing the services to them. Traditionally we have said to people with addiction or mental health problems, ‘go and get your problems solved and then we’ll house you’. And that has turned out to be extremely expensive. You’re putting people into hostels that have to be well staffed, and they’re going nowhere. Putting people into a home and then bringing the services to them makes far more sense and is much cheaper and more effective.

At the moment homeless people have to go to one place for their addiction problem, somewhere else for their mental health problem, and somewhere else to sort out their welfare or medical card. It’s very dispiriting and they don’t know their way around the labyrinth of services that they need. Therefore, we should have a one-stop-shop where their needs are looked after, whether it’s coming to them or located onsite, it doesn’t really

And the Homeless RAS?

I disagree with it in principle, but in practice it is excellent! I think local authorities should be  accommodating homeless people rather than relying on private landlords: but the scheme is proving very effective in getting people accommodation.”

Despite my secularist outlook and a deeply entrenched distrust of organised religion, I find Peter one of the most interesting people I have ever met. He is somebody who personifies his values rather than preaching them. I ask him about the vision that inspires him.

His Jesus he tells me wasn’t interested in trying to get us to heaven but came to form a community that would live together in justice and in fairness. That involves two characteristics. One is a community of radical solidarity where everybody shares everything they have and are for the sake of those in need in the community. Secondly it’s a community of radical social inclusion where everybody is welcome and everybody is valued.

Imagine if we all lived together and ensured that everybody’s needs were met. Everybody loved and valued and respected everybody else. God, wouldn’t it be a wonderful place to live in! And I think that was Jesus’ vision for the world.

And people who don’t believe?

I would share with many people who don’t believe, the desire to create a just world without poverty or exclusion. Believing in God is not a necessary pre-condition for wanting that. I think one of the innate characteristics of human beings is a sense of compassion. That compassion belongs to us as human beings, not as Christians. So I think we can desire a just world quite independently of what religion we are or whether we are of any religion. For me the Christian vision gives an added impetus.

What keeps you going?

I love the work I’m doing and the young people I work with. I think they are wonderful. I know if I had been born into their circumstances, I would be exactly the same as them. If they had been born into my circumstances, they would be coming up to visit me in prison. Everyone is worth helping. And the little you can do sometimes means so very much to them. I have learnt and got so much from them. They have changed my life totally - challenged everything I believed, my understanding of and my relationship with God, and my perspective on Irish society. I have got far more from them than I have given. So I find the job extremely satisfying and I enjoy it very much. It’s worthwhile, and as I say it is supported by my understanding of God and my understanding of who Jesus is.

So as well as the frequent anger expressed in the media, there is happiness there?

The anger doesn’t dispel the happiness. I’m a very happy person. I feel so grateful and privileged for all that I have received in life and for the opportunities that I’ve had to do this sort of work. People say ‘how do you keep going?’. I wouldn’t want to be doing anything else. I wouldn’t want to live my life any other way.

Fran Daly, (2009) Cornerstone Magazine, Issue 40

Cornerstone is published by the Homeless Agency. To visit their website click here.